Adding Guyout points to Tent

Discussion about making bushwalking-related equipment.

Adding Guyout points to Tent

Postby crollsurf » Wed 19 Aug, 2020 1:43 pm

I just bought a new tent for Canoeing, base and car camping.
https://www.pomoly.com/Pomoly-Hot-Shelter-Tent-With-Stove-Jack-4-Season-Camping-Survival-Bungalow-Cold-Weather-Insulated-Tent-1-2-Person-p945951.html

I do like the config and size but to suggest it's 4 season is bordering on criminal. 3 season, all it should need is a few extra guyout points along the back of the tent and one each on the side panels. I'm thinking on the snow skirt. Material is 300D Oxford with silver coating layer.

How do i do this without it ripping straight out and is there a way that doesn't require seamstress skills?
Hopefully there is some kind of stick on patch I can use and punch some rivet holes into it.

Curious to know what does and doesn't work

Regards,
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Re: Adding Guyout points to Tent

Postby ribuck » Thu 20 Aug, 2020 5:05 am

What an interesting tent! And silver-coating makes quite a difference to thermal comfort, as well as blocking sunlight and bright moonlight.

Perhaps Grip Clips will do what you want. Take a look at the video on the following link to see how they work. If you don't want to buy a commercial product, you can hack something together by chopping off the top of a plastic bottle that has a secure threaded lid (such as a 500ml fizzy drink bottle).

https://www.ultralightoutdoorgear.co.uk ... clips-p447
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Re: Adding Guyout points to Tent

Postby Neo » Thu 20 Aug, 2020 4:28 pm

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Re: Adding Guyout points to Tent

Postby ribuck » Thu 20 Aug, 2020 5:26 pm

The one Neo found is much better if you are clipping to the edge of the snow skirt, because it ruffles the fabric less. The Grip Clips only have an advantage if you need to attach to the middle of the fabric.
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Re: Adding Guyout points to Tent

Postby crollsurf » Thu 20 Aug, 2020 5:48 pm

Thanks ribuck and Neo,

The clips look good, in fact there seems to be quite a few once you know what to search for. Bunnings has some Polytuf Tarp Clips that are cheap and easy to get hold of so I'll get some and see how they go.

I also wouldn't mind a guyout on the middle of the back panel, so I'm definitely going to give the sports drink cap a go. I love clever little hacks like that.

Oh yeah, I've already cut the snow skirts off. Probably good in the snow but dirty puddle collecting condensation creating things, don't like them.
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Re: Adding Guyout points to Tent

Postby Moondog55 » Thu 20 Aug, 2020 8:07 pm

I'd be tempted to sew up something of reasonable size; say a triangle 300 wide and 150 deep and simply glue it on with silicon, using a strip say 350 * 100 as the glueing surface.
Those clips work well tho
Ve are too soon old und too late schmart
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Re: Adding Guyout points to Tent

Postby telemarktim » Wed 19 May, 2021 10:10 pm

Hi regarding attaching tie outs on light fabric tents I think simple strong machine sewing can easily do the job. The photo below shows the gentle pulling action of the tie outs and they never leak water.

Image

That is all I have ever used and I have never had a failure. Sorry, I don't have any detailed photos. I do lay-flat Or French seams to join all tent panels ( four layers thick and two lines of stitches). I attach my tie outs where possible to the seam. I make the tie-outs out of scrap strips of tent fabric. (Sounds like the lovely snow skirts that you cut off will give you plenty to work with. I ALWAYS add snow skirts even if they are gossamer light fabric.)

I make the tie-outs in bulk as long strips so that they end up the same width as the tent seams. They start four times wider than the seam and I fold the edges inwards to the middle and then fold one side over the other and sew the strip together with a gentle zigzag stitch, working down the edges that have been folded together. The folding and sewing can be done as one smooth operation as the fabric passes under the foot of the sewing machine. It is far less difficult than my clunky description!

I cut lengths of this strip that can be folded into two and sew together to form an open loop for the guy rope on one end and a joined portion that has a length that is about 3-4 times the width of the French seam. I do them as pairs and fold them into the middle so that there is less stopping and starting of the stitch line then (later cut them in two). I then run the stitching onto the next pair until they are all done without any need to go through the tedious process of re-starting the stitch line. This stitching needs no strength as it will be oversewn many times when attached to the tent. It just stops the slipping and sliding, especially with silnylon, when sewing onto the tent.


I sew the tie-out onto the French seams in the hanging down position. I use a slight zig-zag
stitch and do about 6 there-and-back stitch runs. I carefully finish the stitching run at an even line where the loop forms so that many stitches evenly share that frontline holding roll. If the tent is RTV silicone rubber glueable you can be quite tricky and glue the tie outs on before sewing. This makes the sewing much easier for a crap sewer like me and to my surprise, the silicone is quite nice to sew through even though I had the candle wax at the ready to help if needed.

For premium tie out positions (Bell tent corners for example), before sewing the tie out on I glue disk patches of tent fabric (one to two layers thick) on the inside of the seam to 'share the load. An example of an oval patch can be seen in the post below in the green square Bell ten with the doorway open.

Around the bottom of the tent and the snow skirt (if you hadn't cut it off) I do a triple layer rolled seam with a light zig-zag stitch line. In this situation, I make the tie out strip much shorter and don't pre-stitch the ends together so that the ends can be splayed apart before sew on with zig-zag stitches back and forth along the triple rolled seam.

Here is a post with tents with these tie outs. They have survived the test of time and abuse and wonderful storms without a single tie out failure.

https://timtinker.com/ultralight-tent/


Last comments:
Around the bottom of the tent where tent pegs (or sticks in snow) are used to peg the tent down, I tie a small loop of yellow bricklayers line into the tie out so that any abrasion damage from the pushing or pulling of the peg will not harm the sewn tie out and the cord can easily be replaced if needed. They are also easier to find in the darkness and are much easier to thread the peg or stout sticks through. In contrast,the sewn tie out always closes up and is hard to thread when you are tired and have cold hands and a storm on your back.

I treat all attachment zones with dilute RTV silicone rubber while also doing the seams (for my silnylon tents).

Also, Moondog mentioned silnylon glueing. I would like to know of the success or failures of this in the hands of others. It has exciting possibilities by my assessment.

Sorry for such a long reply, but it may help some other keen DIY tent makers. Tim
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Re: Adding Guyout points to Tent

Postby BarryK » Thu 20 May, 2021 9:32 pm

telemarktim wrote:Also, Moondog mentioned silnylon glueing. I would like to know of the success or failures of this in the hands of others. It has exciting possibilities by my assessment.


Right now, I am partway through constructing a silnylon tarp that is mostly glued. I was inspired by these videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5yGxdJveZk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ec8YhQffRj8

That first video, in the comments mentions Permatex 81730 silicone sealant. Available from Repco. Don't buy it, it gave me a headache, and that was using it outside, with a paper face mask.

I am just using straight silicone adhesive, a 40g tube of Parfix All Purpose Silicone Sealant from Bunnings. Do not thin it. I found that just squeezing it enough to get a very small amount, then run along with my thumb to spread it, then press together, works great, uses hardly any silicone.

I will post how-to when the tarp is finished. Have two pieces of 10D silnylon, that will be glued together for the ridgeline. So far, have made the hems on side and bottom, just glued. Real easy, just folded the edge, the stickiness of the adhesive holds it.

One side of the tarp weighed 64g (just the silnylon), after I had glued the side and bottom hems it was 70g.
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Re: Adding Guyout points to Tent

Postby telemarktim » Fri 21 May, 2021 9:40 am

Thanks BarryK,
That is interesting. I have made strong bonds with RTV silicone rubber, but it never felt quite right having just glue between me in a blizzard. I think you know what I mean and my stitches have not failed me yet. My orange tent in the photo below got an absolute flogging during the following night. Nearly broke the tent pole Winds so so strong that they blew us backwards on our skis. But the stitches held. Maybe glue only would work, but I would need a plan B.

Image

I will be keen to hear how you progress and see some photos of the finished shelter.
Thanks, Tim
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Re: Adding Guyout points to Tent

Postby BarryK » Fri 21 May, 2021 3:52 pm

telemarktim wrote:Thanks BarryK,
That is interesting. I have made strong bonds with RTV silicone rubber, but it never felt quite right having just glue between me in a blizzard. I think you know what I mean and my stitches have not failed me yet. My orange tent in the photo below got an absolute flogging during the following night. Nearly broke the tent pole Winds so so strong that they blew us backwards on our skis. But the stitches held. Maybe glue only would work, but I would need a plan B.


I did do some preliminary testing, prior to embarking on the tent:

https://bkhome.org/news/202105/glueing- ... ewing.html

...but later I decided, hey, why not go for it, glue all the seams, and reinforcements. To see how it turns out.

So yes, strong when pulled "longitudinally", not very strong if just pull the two fabrics apart from the end of the seam.

Sewing is definitely stronger.

I think that the trick is not to have any weak point in the seam, where a tear can start. I did the ridgeline of my tarp this morning just the two sides overlapped 3cm, and it looks good.

Yes, it is an experiment, and I too, am very interested to see what will happen to it when I camp overnight in strong winds.

I am going to sew the tie-out webbing, but will glue on the fabric for the reinforcing.
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Re: Adding Guyout points to Tent

Postby telemarktim » Fri 21 May, 2021 8:18 pm

Hi Barry,
I appreciate the discussion. I enjoyed reading your post on your website (must get back and explore the others) and felt that I understood your experience.

By your description, I think you have got the crappy cheap silnylon that just forms inferior bonds.
I am not happy that you got it. But I am happy that I am not the only one to have the crappy stuff (Green in my post) and good stuff (orange in my post).

Those lesser bonds can be OK for many situations where the forces are properly directed. But peel forces are not one. I think as you say the bond can be supplemented with stitching, to prevent the start of the peel. If you are messy with the glue, it can also make the sewing by machine much easier, almost normal.

I forgot to mention that I use the large 300g acetic cure RTV silicone rubber (Parafix Window and Glass) very cheap at Bunnings. The acetic acid is rather strong-smelling, but as a chemist, I trust it more than any other man-made solvent! It is a safe bet if you can ingest it in your pickled onion or fish and chips.

Sorry to crollsurf, if I have hijacked your topic.

Would it be good if we started a RTV silicone rubber bondage…correction.... bonding topic? I have explored quite a few materials to try to understand the crappy bonding. I have discovered a little, but together we could find out more. Tim
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