Wood stoves - simple fix to stop smoking

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Wood stoves - simple fix to stop smoking

Postby craigprice » Sat 18 Apr, 2020 5:01 pm

Hi ya
Does your wood stove smoke really badly when you put the billy on it? If so read on....
Ive been playing around with a bunch of the folding wood stoves. As some would know ive tried many of the folding ones - and given most of them away for free, the expensive titaNium versionstoo, as i was never really happy with them compared to my cheapo diy gassifier designs made from fruit and tomato tins.
I’d kept a few cheap steel folding ones i got from china that look like copies of the official titanium ones from usa and during this time of being cooped up at home ive been, well, playing and testing..
One of my key gripes of the folding stoves is that when burning eucalyptus twigs while thry burn ok, they tend to smoke really bad as soon as you put on a billy, unlike when burning twigs from north americsn timber. Really really smoke when you out a billy on them. . I usually use my own diy gassifier design from fruit tomato tins with a pot stand and it burns clean and boils far better..
Well, over last day ive finally solved my smoke issue. Doh! Use a pot stand over the folding wood stove to lift the billy/pot up above the stove with a gap to allow the flames to do a good secondary burn of the wood gases. Like the penny wood stove you need some height. (look it up). If you provide an inch and half gap from billy to top of wood stove all the smoke goes and its a clean burn. You do need a high tin foil windscreen for this. Kinda obvious in hindsight, though. I use a one to two inch mesh pot stand on my gaasifiers for this reason also. These folding stoves are designed to not use a pot stand but most need one for euca twigs..
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Re: Wood stoves - simple fix to stop smoking

Postby ggorgeman » Sun 19 Apr, 2020 8:09 pm

Very interesting, thanks... any chance of a few pics?
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Re: Wood stoves - simple fix to stop smoking

Postby CaptainC » Tue 28 Apr, 2020 8:01 pm

I;m not sure what these folding wood stoves are. Is it something like this? https://www.amazon.com.au/Lixada-Portab ... ackpacking
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Re: Wood stoves - simple fix to stop smoking

Postby Peterac » Thu 30 Apr, 2020 6:20 am

Yes please pics, I sort of imagine but .......
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Re: Wood stoves - simple fix to stop smoking

Postby ghosta » Thu 30 Apr, 2020 8:57 am

As a generalisation many people are clueless when it comes to fire lighting and maintenance and it pleasing to hear someone has figured out what anyone used to working with fires should readily work out....

"if you choke a fire, it it will smoke"

I say should...many of my friends and relatives who regularly have outdoor fire are worse than hopeless!
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Re: Wood stoves - simple fix to stop smoking

Postby ChrisJHC » Thu 30 Apr, 2020 3:08 pm

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Re: Wood stoves - simple fix to stop smoking

Postby telemarktim » Mon 17 May, 2021 8:14 pm

Hi Craig, Thanks for your post. I love wood fuel and hate smoke. Your explanation of the cause of the smoking and that solution are spot on. With damp or wet wood it gets worse and wet winter sticks are what we get in Gippsland where I walk and ski.
I devised a way of eliminating the smoke by making the stove very squat so that the pot is very close, (sometimes touching) to the wood/charcoal and I put a little blast of air into the stove to turbocharger the charcoal combustion, using ~125g DIY USB fire blower (Photos are in the following post links).
https://timtinker.com/usb-fire-blower/

It makes the stove run hot and clean and the boil rate is about half the speed of a Jestboil, but it can do two pots at once. Try that on a Jetboil!

The stove body can be as cheap as a Tuna tin.
https://timtinker.com/ultralight-blower-stove/

Works quite well with a zero cost and zero weight hole in the ground or rocks (non exploding type).
https://timtinker.com/rock-n-hole-stoves/

The fuel sticks are pushed in from the side of the stove and the pot seals off the top of the burn chamber so that long sticks can be used for easy fuel. No flames around the side of the pot. The stove exhaust dries the stick as they are slowly pushed in and can keep the cook warm.

Also, I was tempted to flip my tiny round tent stove upside down to turn it into an outside cooking stove. Silly me, I thought that the cooking would be quick if the pot was directly contacting the flames. BUT NO. Similar to your experience it made the stove smoke. However, putting a disk of 0.1mm thick SS foil between the fire and the pot made it burn clean and hot once more and the cooking was quicker than on the flames.
https://timtinker.com/effect-of-direct- ... rformance/



I hope this makes sense and contributes to the discussion.
Tim
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Re: Wood stoves - simple fix to stop smoking

Postby craigprice » Sat 12 Jun, 2021 5:49 pm

Oooh sorry everyone
Didnt get notifications of responses - wasnt delib ignoring them. Will respond (belatedly).
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Re: Wood stoves - simple fix to stop smoking

Postby craigprice » Sat 12 Jun, 2021 5:54 pm

CaptainC wrote:I;m not sure what these folding wood stoves are. Is it something like this? https://www.amazon.com.au/Lixada-Portab ... ackpacking

Yup thats it, its a knock off of the firebox - they all struggle with eucalyptus like here, esp. when wet - trick is to ensure you have a good space beteen the flame and stove - so use a windscreen.

Versions:
Firebox
Fireant
Vargo (conical folding)
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Re: Wood stoves - simple fix to stop smoking

Postby craigprice » Sat 12 Jun, 2021 5:58 pm

telemarktim wrote:Hi Craig, Thanks for your post. I love wood fuel and hate smoke. Your explanation of the cause of the smoking and that solution are spot on. With damp or wet wood it gets worse and wet winter sticks are what we get in Gippsland where I walk and ski.
I devised a way of eliminating the smoke by making the stove very squat so that the pot is very close, (sometimes touching) to the wood/charcoal and I put a little blast of air into the stove to turbocharger the charcoal combustion, using ~125g DIY USB fire blower (Photos are in the following post links).
https://timtinker.com/usb-fire-blower/

It makes the stove run hot and clean and the boil rate is about half the speed of a Jestboil, but it can do two pots at once. Try that on a Jetboil!

The stove body can be as cheap as a Tuna tin.
https://timtinker.com/ultralight-blower-stove/

Works quite well with a zero cost and zero weight hole in the ground or rocks (non exploding type).
https://timtinker.com/rock-n-hole-stoves/

The fuel sticks are pushed in from the side of the stove and the pot seals off the top of the burn chamber so that long sticks can be used for easy fuel. No flames around the side of the pot. The stove exhaust dries the stick as they are slowly pushed in and can keep the cook warm.

Also, I was tempted to flip my tiny round tent stove upside down to turn it into an outside cooking stove. Silly me, I thought that the cooking would be quick if the pot was directly contacting the flames. BUT NO. Similar to your experience it made the stove smoke. However, putting a disk of 0.1mm thick SS foil between the fire and the pot made it burn clean and hot once more and the cooking was quicker than on the flames.
https://timtinker.com/effect-of-direct- ... rformance/



I hope this makes sense and contributes to the discussion.
Tim


Spot on tim
You posted yr stove separately and i agree - if you use s fan to pumpin O2 thrn the optioms open up.
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Re: Wood stoves - simple fix to stop smoking

Postby telemarktim » Sun 20 Jun, 2021 9:49 am

craigprice wrote:Hi ya
Does your wood stove smoke really badly when you put the billy on it? If so read on....
Ive been playing around with a bunch of the folding wood stoves. As some would know ive tried many of the folding ones - and given most of them away for free, the expensive titaNium versionstoo, as i was never really happy with them compared to my cheapo diy gassifier designs made from fruit and tomato tins.
I’d kept a few cheap steel folding ones i got from china that look like copies of the official titanium ones from usa and during this time of being cooped up at home ive been, well, playing and testing..
One of my key gripes of the folding stoves is that when burning eucalyptus twigs while thry burn ok, they tend to smoke really bad as soon as you put on a billy, unlike when burning twigs from north americsn timber. Really really smoke when you out a billy on them. . I usually use my own diy gassifier design from fruit tomato tins with a pot stand and it burns clean and boils far better..
Well, over last day ive finally solved my smoke issue. Doh! Use a pot stand over the folding wood stove to lift the billy/pot up above the stove with a gap to allow the flames to do a good secondary burn of the wood gases. Like the penny wood stove you need some height. (look it up). If you provide an inch and half gap from billy to top of wood stove all the smoke goes and its a clean burn. You do need a high tin foil windscreen for this. Kinda obvious in hindsight, though. I use a one to two inch mesh pot stand on my gaasifiers for this reason also. These folding stoves are designed to not use a pot stand but most need one for euca twigs..


Hi Craigprice, Please can you share a photo of your stove set up that works without smoking including the stand, fire and pot? What extra weight does it add? Tim
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Re: Wood stoves - simple fix to stop smoking

Postby GPSGuided » Mon 21 Jun, 2021 10:21 am

Talking about wood fires and just heard an ABC Radio report on the issue that is relevant to this thread as well as generally. The health impact is significant.

https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/pr ... g/13397280


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Re: Wood stoves - simple fix to stop smoking

Postby telemarktim » Mon 21 Jun, 2021 10:35 am

GPSGuided wrote:Talking about wood fires and just heard an ABC Radio report on the issue that is relevant to this thread as well as generally. The health impact is significant.

https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/pr ... g/13397280


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Yes, very pertinent. Another very good reason to reduce smoke from wood burning. However, efficiency is my main driver. Let's not ban fires, ban the smoke!
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Re: Wood stoves - simple fix to stop smoking

Postby Baeng72 » Mon 21 Jun, 2021 10:56 am

Question here from the ignorant corner. I'm assuming you're using these stoves inside the tent, how do you guard against CO poisoning? I think that if the fuel burns in an oxygen rich environment it will oxidize to CO2, but if not enough oxygen, then only to CO. It's been decades since school chemistry, so I may have that *&%$#! about too.
I love the idea of a warm, controlled fire keeping you toasty all night, not that I could fit it in my small, lightish silnylon tent without the tent going up too.
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Re: Wood stoves - simple fix to stop smoking

Postby craigprice » Mon 21 Jun, 2021 11:41 am

Hi Tim - sorry the original post was over a year ago - disposed of the stoves and pics long since.
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Re: Wood stoves - simple fix to stop smoking

Postby telemarktim » Mon 21 Jun, 2021 12:00 pm

Baeng72 wrote:Question here from the ignorant corner. I'm assuming you're using these stoves inside the tent, how do you guard against CO poisoning? I think that if the fuel burns in an oxygen rich environment it will oxidize to CO2, but if not enough oxygen, then only to CO. It's been decades since school chemistry, so I may have that *&%$#! about too.
I love the idea of a warm, controlled fire keeping you toasty all night, not that I could fit it in my small, lightish silnylon tent without the tent going up too.


Baen72, Your assumption is wrong. This thread is talking about outdoor wood-fired cooking stoves where the smoke will annoy you and very slowly cause you harm.But CO2 or CO will not be the issue. There is another topic on the on wood stoves for little tents:
https://bushwalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=34990
And, yes they are nice and warm while the fuel kept topped up, but no one has reported more than about 0.5h of unattended run time. So your all-night warmth dream is not yet a reality. Although hot water from the tent stove can provide warming comfort all night:
https://bushwalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=35810,
Here is a video of a little tent stove running clean and hot with no sign of smoke, while burning damp sticks, on my stone-age test bench :


Yes, a little stove can safely fit in a little tent, if the tent is modified appropriately with a stove jack:
https://timtinker.com/silicone-rubber-temperature-resistance-for-on-hot-tents/
Tim
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Re: Wood stoves - simple fix to stop smoking

Postby Baeng72 » Mon 21 Jun, 2021 1:40 pm

Thanks Telemarktim.

I flagged my ignorance at the start because it was a safe assumption that my assumptions were wrong. :)

That makes sense, 30m burn time.
I guess the exhaust gases go out the flue in the modified tent with a tent stove.
It looks like a lot to carry, and pack down.
If you're setting up camp in the snow as a base, and doing day trips/skiing, it would make sense.

I like the idea of a hot water bottle for cold nights, as I can use a gas or alcohol burner to get the hot water.
I think Anaconda sell a Triton type Nalgene bottle which won't leak to much in the way of chemicals from boiling water.
https://www.anacondastores.com/camping- ... gICcvD_BwE
I wouldn't trust my heavy fat feet not to split a soft bag/bladder in the middle of the night.
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Re: Wood stoves - simple fix to stop smoking

Postby telemarktim » Mon 21 Jun, 2021 3:01 pm

Baeng72 wrote:Thanks Telemarktim.

I flagged my ignorance at the start because it was a safe assumption that my assumptions were wrong. :)

That makes sense, 30m burn time.
I guess the exhaust gases go out the flue in the modified tent with a tent stove.
It looks like a lot to carry, and pack down.
If you're setting up camp in the snow as a base, and doing day trips/skiing, it would make sense.

I like the idea of a hot water bottle for cold nights, as I can use a gas or alcohol burner to get the hot water.
I think Anaconda sell a Triton type Nalgene bottle which won't leak to much in the way of chemicals from boiling water.
https://www.anacondastores.com/camping- ... gICcvD_BwE
I wouldn't trust my heavy fat feet not to split a soft bag/bladder in the middle of the night.


Hi Baeng72, The tent stove is great for base camps, but at 400g, with stovepipe inside and the size of a 1L pot it is hardly; 'a lot to carry and pack down' for backpacking.
I am continuing to do the nightly tests with boiling water in the cheap 2L soft bottle and no problems up to nine uses now. I think any further discussion of these should be under the relevant topics. Tim
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