Salami and hard cheeses in food drops

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Salami and hard cheeses in food drops

Postby onward » Tue 15 Nov, 2016 6:13 pm

Wandering the length of the AAWT starting in Feb 2017, and I am just wondering if salami and hard cheeses are viable options in food drops that might be in place 6-10 weeks before being used. Any thoughts on such matters?
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Re: Salami and hard cheeses in food drops

Postby MartyGwynne » Thu 17 Nov, 2016 9:57 pm

Umm I think it will get too hot for too long and may go off or not be at its best as they are usually sold refrigerated. If you want a meat fix I would try one of the jerky products or the salami type sticks which are sold unrefridgerated. If you can stash your food in a shady spot (maybe underground) where it can stay cooler you might be able to store salami and hard cheese. Just make sure you pack them well and seperatly so they don't spoil you other food.
I hope that helps you..
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Re: Salami and hard cheeses in food drops

Postby Eremophila » Mon 28 Nov, 2016 12:37 pm

The Chinese-style sausage that is sold unrefrigerated, should be ok.

Kraft cheddar in the blue box......maybe if it's sealed really well, might sweat a bit Likewise for Laughing Cow.

Try stashing some in your backyard now and see what works!
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Re: Salami and hard cheeses in food drops

Postby Mark F » Mon 28 Nov, 2016 1:02 pm

For salami look for the small 250g whole units that are marked "Pasturised, heat treated". These are Don Pepperoni and White Hungarian? varieties available at supermarkets. I have placed these in food drops without a problem. You will see many salamis with "NOT heat treated" on their labels - these will go off.

For cheese just go for a hard well aged cheddar or parmesan etc. It may sweat a little but will still be fine.

Try to make sure you place your drops in a well shaded location to avoid direct sunlight to keep temperatures as low as possible.
"Perfection is attained not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing more to remove".
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Re: Salami and hard cheeses in food drops

Postby MeanderingFlyFisher » Mon 28 Nov, 2016 6:43 pm

Mark F wrote:For salami look for the small 250g whole units that are marked "Pasturised, heat treated". These are Don Pepperoni and White Hungarian? varieties available at supermarkets. I have placed these in food drops without a problem. You will see many salamis with "NOT heat treated" on their labels - these will go off.
.


Mark,I was under the impression the opposite to what you say and have never had any problems.
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Re: Salami and hard cheeses in food drops

Postby onward » Tue 29 Nov, 2016 5:58 pm

Thanks for the great suggestions. Will try a few types in a shaded spot in backyard over the next month or so and see what happens! There is only so much tuna/salmon I can eat for lunch!!
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Re: Salami and hard cheeses in food drops

Postby Strider » Tue 29 Nov, 2016 9:35 pm

MeanderingFlyFisher wrote:
Mark F wrote:For salami look for the small 250g whole units that are marked "Pasturised, heat treated". These are Don Pepperoni and White Hungarian? varieties available at supermarkets. I have placed these in food drops without a problem. You will see many salamis with "NOT heat treated" on their labels - these will go off.
.


Mark,I was under the impression the opposite to what you say and have never had any problems.

I was also under that impression MFF...that heat treated must be refridgerated and non-heat treated were shelf stable. Now I'm confused!

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Re: Salami and hard cheeses in food drops

Postby neilmny » Wed 30 Nov, 2016 10:53 am

Strider wrote:
MeanderingFlyFisher wrote:
Mark F wrote:For salami look for the small 250g whole units that are marked "Pasturised, heat treated". These are Don Pepperoni and White Hungarian? varieties available at supermarkets. I have placed these in food drops without a problem. You will see many salamis with "NOT heat treated" on their labels - these will go off.
.


Mark,I was under the impression the opposite to what you say and have never had any problems.

I was also under that impression MFF...that heat treated must be refridgerated and non-heat treated were shelf stable. Now I'm confused!


Same here.
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Re: Salami and hard cheeses in food drops

Postby Mark F » Sat 03 Dec, 2016 2:00 pm

I suspect there are arguments both ways. My thoughts are that heat treated salami, while it remains in the sealed plastic wrapper, is largely sterile similar to long life milk etc. This has certainly been my experience with food drops I have used with up to two months out in the wild. Once open it lasts about a week with peeling back the skin, slicing and then pulling the skin back over the cut surface.

With the non-heat treated salamis I expect that the "proper" ones, those you find hanging in delis, which build up a protective layer of "good" organisms will work but only if kept in appropriate conditions with reasonable air flow and suitable humidity. Once cut, the cut surface may be have a relatively short life before going off (a few days) and I would expect problems if they are stored for any length of time in anoxic conditions - eg wrapped in plastic in a sealed food drop container. I have no experience of the non-heat treated supermarket salamis which often feature cut surfaces and are sealed in plastic like the heat treated ones but I doubt they will keep as well as the others. I have seen pre-sliced salami (of unknown type) go off rather quickly.
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Re: Salami and hard cheeses in food drops

Postby taswegian » Fri 10 Feb, 2017 6:01 pm

@onward Not sure where you're at with this?
Years ago we tried taking salami on extended time outback Q'land.
Wife was pregnant. Ended up in Townsville Hospital!
I was mildly crook, not so her.

I still eat salami, but only if I know it hasn't been carted across country.

What ever is said above I don't critise, but merely share my experience,
It's one I'd never want anyone to endure.

Take care and consider alternatives is my only suggestion.

Cheese. I'd take seriously hard cheese and expect (hope) that to endure and enjoy.
Been some places with such and no issue other than soggy wrapping from melted stuff from the cheese.

Hope your trip goes (is going) well.
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Re: Salami and hard cheeses in food drops

Postby onward » Sun 12 Feb, 2017 9:15 am

I was due to start trip next week, but the trip is currently delayed whilst dealing with an aged father who had a fall at home last week and will likely need to move into aged care. Hopefully an early March start, the weather will be cooler anyway!

But results of two months of stored food 6/12 to 6/2. Food was stored in dry and shaded conditions inside a 20L PVC drum. During that period we had numerous days >30C.
- The hard cheese (Parmesan) had sweated badly and smelt so bad I wouldn't have tried it;
- Much of the fat in the salami had melted and created hollows in the sausage where the fat was previously located, the salami smelt ok, I tried a small piece and it tasted fine, but I wouldn't have trusted it;
- The Cheddar (made with real cheese) processed cheese looked and felt exactly the same and tasted fine;
- Sundried tomatoes in package (as bought of supermarket shelf, no change tasted fine.

Bottom line, have packed plenty of processed cheese and sundried tomatoes, packaged tuna and foil packed salmon in food drops, and will take 'fresh' salami with me for the first week or two.
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Re: Salami and hard cheeses in food drops

Postby Eremophila » Sun 12 Feb, 2017 7:25 pm

That's interesting to know, thanks for the feedback. Was that the Kraft boxed cheese?
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Re: Salami and hard cheeses in food drops

Postby alanoutgear » Sun 12 Feb, 2017 7:42 pm

I know it's not exactly what was asked in the OP but I wanted to take salami and cheese on an 8 day walk so went to the Queen Vic Market deli section before I went and talked to the staff. There are a number of salamis and hard cheeses that will last for that time unrefrigerated.

For cheeses, try and get a 36 month aged Cheddar, preferably with a wax rind, or a Spanish Manchego, or an Italian Montasio. Get some "slab wrap" from your Fromager (cheese supplier). Slab wrap is a special breathable papery plastic used in the cheese industry to store cheese for the longest possible time in the best possible condition. Do not wrap in non breathable plastic. I was advised that all cheeses eventually grow mould - green or white moulds can be cut off or just left in place and eaten with the cheese (provided you are not allergic to penicillin) - they are penicillium moulds, but cheeses with pink or grey moulds, or any other colour mould must not be eaten.

For salamis, there are a number that are made to be hung without refrigeration. One deli had a "bushwalkers' sausage" which was quite spicy (which I bought), as well as a couple of others that were recommended for longer term non refrigerated storage. Wrap in a sheet of paper towel and baking paper, and definitely no plastic.

I went for the walk and while the cheeses did go a bit soft on hot days but they did not grow mould for at least 10 days, and the salamis didn't make it to the end of the walk - they were delicious!

I also imported a pack of Ova Easy egg crystals from the US with no probs. These rehydrate just like real fresh eggs unlike the Farm Pride dried eggs which you can get here. I've tried the Farm Pride dried eggs and in my view they are inedible if you try and make scrambled eggs or an omelette with them, whereas rehydrated Ova Easy egg crystals, full cream milk powder, salami and cheese make a very tasty breaky on the track either as scrambled eggs or as an omelette. They are expensive though at A$25 for the equivalent of a dozen eggs.
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Re: Salami and hard cheeses in food drops

Postby WadeThrupp » Fri 03 Mar, 2017 8:05 am

onward wrote:- The hard cheese (Parmesan) had sweated badly and smelt so bad I wouldn't have tried it;

Can you please tell us what packaging the parmesan had compared to the cheddar?

I've been reading about cheese for the last few hours and from what I understand, that smell is ammonia and it would have gone away. Since you said it had "sweated badly" I assume that it was wrapped or concealed in a non breathable material. Had it been open to the air or had some other form of wrap, the ammonia, which is a natural by-product of ageing cheese, would have been able to evaporate. Of course though, you can't have it open to the air because mold needs oxygen.

The way I plan to take my cheese with me is to portion for 3-5 days, wrap in cheese cloth and vacuum seal with an oxygen absorber.
onward wrote:- Much of the fat in the salami had melted and created hollows in the sausage where the fat was previously located, the salami smelt ok, I tried a small piece and it tasted fine, but I wouldn't have trusted it;

What brand salami?..

This is interesting. Adding to what was discussed above about whether you want the heat treated or non heat treated salami - "The concept of fermentation—allowing beneficial or benign organisms to grow in food to prevent destructive or toxic ones from growing—especially with meat". The heat treatment is to stop the fermentation... So does that mean that bad bacteria have more room to grow after it's been heat treated? f's me, more research is needed here..
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Re: Salami and hard cheeses in food drops

Postby Stew63 » Mon 06 Mar, 2017 1:47 am

alanoutgear wrote:
I also imported a pack of Ova Easy egg crystals from the US with no probs. These rehydrate just like real fresh eggs unlike the Farm Pride dried eggs which you can get here. I've tried the Farm Pride dried eggs and in my view they are inedible if you try and make scrambled eggs or an omelette with them, whereas rehydrated Ova Easy egg crystals, full cream milk powder, salami and cheese make a very tasty breaky on the track either as scrambled eggs or as an omelette. They are expensive though at A$25 for the equivalent of a dozen eggs.


I too use OvaEasy eggs they taste like the real thing. Even my wife and kids couldn't tell the difference when I made them an omlet at home with the OvaEasy. Agreed though - the FarmPride dried eggs taste like total puke - inedible.

I bought my OvaEasy from a NZ online store - the US suppliers wouldn't post to me. Their idea of '= a dozen eggs' though would be only about 10 eggs in my book.
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