Sleeping mat selection for reliability on long hike

Bushwalking gear and paraphernalia. Electronic gadget topics (inc. GPS, PLB, chargers) belong in the 'Techno Babble' sub-forum.
Forum rules
TIP: The online Bushwalk Inventory System can help bushwalkers with a variety of bushwalk planning tasks, including: Manage which items they take bushwalking so that they do not forget anything they might need, plan meals for their walks, and automatically compile food/fuel shopping lists (lists of consumables) required to make and cook the meals for each walk. It is particularly useful for planning for groups who share food or other items, but is also useful for individual walkers.

Sleeping mat selection for reliability on long hike

Postby emma_melbourne » Mon 09 Jul, 2018 8:06 am

There has been a number of airmat failures reported on the forum - particularly Exped Synmat but others also. Not ideal if out on a long hike, although it’s never a good time to have a mat failure.

Obviously closed cell foam mats are the reliable way to go, but they’re not comfortable to sleep on, particularly for side-sleepers.

I’m of the impression that SIM (Self-Inflating Mats) sleeping pads like Thermarest Prolite mats tend to be more reliable than air mats, but I could be wrong in this belief. My understanding is if anything goes wrong it’s usually a puncture, which can generally be repaired on the trail. And if it does leak overnight, you are still sleeping on something - eg an uninflated foam mat, which is better than nothing.

Is this others’ view also?

Of the air mats, it’s sounding like Thermarest NeoAir pads have generally done quite well with fewer failures and tend to last a while but not as long as SIM pads. And NeoAir mats better on weight being lower, take up less volume in pack etc.

what sleeping mat do you all take on a long (6-8 day) hike?

Airmat?

Closed cell?

Closed cell and an airmat?

SIM for security?
Last edited by emma_melbourne on Mon 09 Jul, 2018 8:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
emma_melbourne
Athrotaxis cupressoides
Athrotaxis cupressoides
 
Posts: 124
Joined: Sun 18 Jun, 2017 2:49 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Region: Victoria
Gender: Female

Re: Sleeping mat selection for reliability on long hike

Postby ILUVSWTAS » Mon 09 Jul, 2018 8:18 am

I have a neoair and a big Agnus sl mat and I like both. The neo is lighter and packs up smaller but the BA is more comfortable. For 68 days however I'd be packing for comfort which would mean weight is the only priority.
Nothing to see here.
User avatar
ILUVSWTAS
Lagarostrobos franklinii
Lagarostrobos franklinii
 
Posts: 9984
Joined: Sun 28 Dec, 2008 9:53 am
Region: Tasmania
Gender: Male

Re: Sleeping mat selection for reliability on long hike

Postby emma_melbourne » Mon 09 Jul, 2018 8:29 am

Thanks for reply. I have just edited post - should have been 6-8 day hike, not 68 day hike. Lol
User avatar
emma_melbourne
Athrotaxis cupressoides
Athrotaxis cupressoides
 
Posts: 124
Joined: Sun 18 Jun, 2017 2:49 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Region: Victoria
Gender: Female

Re: Sleeping mat selection for reliability on long hike

Postby Moondog55 » Mon 09 Jul, 2018 8:36 am

Never having been on a 68 day hike I wouldn't know, but I like my nite time comfort and so far the S2S comfort plus is the most comfortable mat I have used. But being super cautious I have always used some sort of CCF pad under any of my other SIF mats like the T'Rest. In winter and/or on snow that CCF gets thicker as I consider bottom insulation more important that what I sleep under when on snow. The CCF is insurance but is also protection for the relatively fragile air filled mat. Personal experience trying to sleep on a leaking T'Rest says its better than nothing, but only just; as open cell PU foam needs to be in excess of 70mm thick to cushion these old bones
Ve are too soon old und too late schmart
Moondog55
Lagarostrobos franklinii
Lagarostrobos franklinii
 
Posts: 8257
Joined: Thu 03 Dec, 2009 4:15 pm
Location: Norlane Geelong Victoria Australia
Region: Victoria
Gender: Male

Re: Sleeping mat selection for reliability on long hike

Postby Zapruda » Mon 09 Jul, 2018 8:46 am

I have a Thermarest Xtherm and Xlite that work really well. They are comfortable, light and warm. The xlite has had one puncture that leaked slowly on a 4 day trip requiring me to blow it up once or twice during the night, no big deal really. I waited until I got home to patch it as it was a very slow leak. The Xtherm has a heavy bottom and is generally used on snow, so the chance of punctures is quite low.

In decent weather, anything above 5c at night, I will use a torso length foam zlite (8 panels). I am a side sleeper and find this comfortable. Foam mats are my preference as they are puncture proof, easy to use and I can sit on them at camp.

Also, after my second day of hard walking I find I can sleep on anything and fall asleep quickly even on the zlite.
User avatar
Zapruda
Athrotaxis cupressoides
Athrotaxis cupressoides
 
Posts: 415
Joined: Thu 07 Apr, 2016 10:46 am
Region: Australian Capital Territory
Gender: Male

Re: Sleeping mat selection for reliability on long hike

Postby Warin » Mon 09 Jul, 2018 8:48 am

A punctured mat will give 0 insulation where ever there is pressure (weight), there the sleeping bag will be giving the insulation not the mat. Where there is no pressure the punctured foam mat will have insulation.

In principle I use both a foam and air mat ... for reliability the foam, for comfort the air.

2 days, 10 days, 30 days .. the length of the trip does not matter. If your prepared to put up with discomfort for 2 days .. then your probably prepared to put up with the same discomfort for 30.
User avatar
Warin
Athrotaxis cupressoides
Athrotaxis cupressoides
 
Posts: 369
Joined: Sat 11 Nov, 2017 8:02 am
Region: New South Wales

Re: Sleeping mat selection for reliability on long hike

Postby Zapruda » Mon 09 Jul, 2018 9:17 am

Warin wrote:A punctured mat will give 0 insulation where ever there is pressure (weight), there the sleeping bag will be giving the insulation not the mat. Where there is no pressure the punctured foam mat will have insulation.


The OP is referring to classic self inflating mats that have foam inside that runs the length of the mat as well as an air chamber to inflate it. These type of mats do offer redundancy incase of a puncture.

Here is an example - https://www.wildearth.com.au/buy/therma ... S220-06089

These mats have downsides such as weight and bulk.
User avatar
Zapruda
Athrotaxis cupressoides
Athrotaxis cupressoides
 
Posts: 415
Joined: Thu 07 Apr, 2016 10:46 am
Region: Australian Capital Territory
Gender: Male

Re: Sleeping mat selection for reliability on long hike

Postby emma_melbourne » Mon 09 Jul, 2018 10:41 am

Yes exactly. I have tried lying down on my SIM with the valve open, which kind of simulates what would happen if my mat was punctured on trail and I was unable to repair it for any reason, and there is some comfort and a little bit insulation, even though the foam is of course compressed by body weight.

My investment in asking the question, regards mats on a 6-8 day hike, is that I'm booked to do the Overland Track in 5-6 months time. I currently have two SIM mats - one in regular and one in large - in my collection. They are of a type which was a special 40th anniversary edition by Thermarest with a luxurious 5 cm thickness, in a bright yellow colour. They are similar to the Thermarest Prolite Plus, but rather than 3.8 cm thick, they are 5 cm thick. I love my mats, as a side-sleeper who has had sacroiliac joint issues in pregnancy with my daughter, and a big hip to waist ratio which creates a gap when lying on my side. The only "but" is the weight of these mats:
* Thermarest 40th Anniversary regular size, 182 x 50 cm x 5 cm thick, pack size: Pack size 28 x 12 cm diam, 680 grams, R value: 4
* Thermarest 40th Anniversary large size, 193 x 63 x 5 cm thick, Pack size pack 32 x 13 cm diam, 900 grams, R value: 4

I much prefer the large size mat, as I sleep on my side in a slight foetal position and the extra width means I sleep through the night. With the regular size mat, I tend to wake up during the night as I move in my sleep and end up with body parts falling off the mat, and I'm not as comfortable.

However obviously that weight starts being a real consideration - at a hefty 900 grams penalty for that sleeping mat luxury on the trail.

So in trying to get my pack weight down for the Overland Track, I'm seriously considering an air mat. With a Thermarest NeoAir XLite in large weighing 480 grams, I would be saving I could for example buy the large size and save 420 grams on my current large 40th Anniversary mat, or 200 grams off the regular 40th Anniversary mat that I own.

I don't like the crinkly noise of the Thermarest NeoAir.

And the other consideration is risk of a mat failure on the track, which would be a disaster from my perspective. As once you're on the Overland Track, it's not like you can bail, and pop into town and buy another mat if you're part way down the trail. It's a 6 day track.

Also, as I have an Enlightened Equipment Revelation 20 quilt for my sleep system, it relies on the mat insulation as the back is "cut out" as it were. And I'm a cold sleeper. Most women - on average - sleep a bit colder than men. So an air mat failure would be a real stress for me on the trail, and if I was unable to repair it on the trail - would be a disaster. I'd have a quilt with very little insulation underneath me, so very cold and very hard sleeping with a failed airmat.

However I know that Appalachian Trail thru-hikers do the entire AT with a Thermarest NeoAir XLite, and most have no issues with it.
Attachments
Screen Shot 2018-07-09 at 10.27.05 am.png
Screen Shot 2018-07-09 at 10.27.05 am.png (159.62 KiB) Viewed 1108 times
Last edited by emma_melbourne on Mon 09 Jul, 2018 11:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
emma_melbourne
Athrotaxis cupressoides
Athrotaxis cupressoides
 
Posts: 124
Joined: Sun 18 Jun, 2017 2:49 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Region: Victoria
Gender: Female

Re: Sleeping mat selection for reliability on long hike

Postby Zapruda » Mon 09 Jul, 2018 10:55 am

emma_melbourne wrote: I don't like the crinkly noise of the Thermarest NeoAir.


The noise from the xlite and xtherm goes away after about 10-20 nights use. You could just repeatedly roll it at home to get rid of the noise. Mine are near silent now.

emma_melbourne wrote:And the other consideration is risk of a mat failure on the track, which would be a disaster from my perspective. As once you're on the Overland Track, it's not like you can bail, and pop into town and buy another mat if you're part way down the trail. It's a 6 day track.


Sure, there is a possibility of failure, but these mats wouldn't be used all over the world and in situations which are lot more taxing on gear than the OT if they were that prone to failure. They are popular for a reason. A puncture can be fixed quite easily on the track. Treat it carefully and you may get a lifetime of use out of it without a failure. I have used mine on countless walks up to 10 days in length and have had only one tiny and slow leak. I don't baby my gear either.

If you want to save some real weight and don't want to use foam, then the xlite will be your best bet. The Xtherm is also worth considering as it is warmer and has a much stronger 70d bottom and top. I find both of mine luxurious compared to my zlite
User avatar
Zapruda
Athrotaxis cupressoides
Athrotaxis cupressoides
 
Posts: 415
Joined: Thu 07 Apr, 2016 10:46 am
Region: Australian Capital Territory
Gender: Male

Re: Sleeping mat selection for reliability on long hike

Postby ricrunner » Mon 09 Jul, 2018 10:55 am

I use a Vango Regular. 3 cm self inflating mat, it has done 70 nights in a tent always and this is by bicycle touring. It packs really small, is quite light, although a bit of weight is not really a problem using a bike. It has been reliable and most of my recent trips have been 4 nights or there abouts. It is quite comfortable and quite strong material as my dog is always with me and has at times sharp claws and have had no punctures. I think it cost me $54 at Wild earth.
ricrunner
Nothofagus gunnii
Nothofagus gunnii
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue 11 Jul, 2017 9:38 pm
Region: New South Wales
Gender: Male

Re: Sleeping mat selection for reliability on long hike

Postby Moondog55 » Mon 09 Jul, 2018 11:14 am

It's not luxury, it is an essential part of the system for getting a good nites sleep and 900 grams isn't much weight at all
Ve are too soon old und too late schmart
Moondog55
Lagarostrobos franklinii
Lagarostrobos franklinii
 
Posts: 8257
Joined: Thu 03 Dec, 2009 4:15 pm
Location: Norlane Geelong Victoria Australia
Region: Victoria
Gender: Male

Re: Sleeping mat selection for reliability on long hike

Postby north-north-west » Mon 09 Jul, 2018 11:50 am

Moondog55 wrote:It's not luxury, it is an essential part of the system for getting a good nites sleep and 900 grams isn't much weight at all


900g is a lot if you aren't used to carrying it for extended periods. Some of the S2S and Thermarest inflatables are half that. Shaving a bit of weight here and a bit there adds up.
I love my NeoAirs. Would never go back to the Prolite.
"Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens."
User avatar
north-north-west
Lagarostrobos franklinii
Lagarostrobos franklinii
 
Posts: 10439
Joined: Thu 14 May, 2009 7:36 pm
Location: The Asylum
ASSOCIATED ORGANISATIONS: Social Misfits Anonymous
Region: Tasmania

Re: Sleeping mat selection for reliability on long hike

Postby Zapruda » Mon 09 Jul, 2018 12:04 pm

north-north-west wrote:
Moondog55 wrote:It's not luxury, it is an essential part of the system for getting a good nites sleep and 900 grams isn't much weight at all


900g is a lot if you aren't used to carrying it for extended periods. Some of the S2S and Thermarest inflatables are half that. Shaving a bit of weight here and a bit there adds up.
I love my NeoAirs. Would never go back to the Prolite.


Exactly NNW.

900g here, 900g there, and before you know it you have 20kgs on your back and you are on your way to an injury. Comfort shouldn't only extend to your sleep system. Reducing the weight on your back makes for far more comfort during the day and less aches and pains when settling down for the night.

Both the xlite and xtherm are extremely comfortable.
User avatar
Zapruda
Athrotaxis cupressoides
Athrotaxis cupressoides
 
Posts: 415
Joined: Thu 07 Apr, 2016 10:46 am
Region: Australian Capital Territory
Gender: Male

Re: Sleeping mat selection for reliability on long hike

Postby emma_melbourne » Mon 09 Jul, 2018 12:12 pm

My current base weight, including the 900 gram luxury mat, is sitting around 7.5 kg.

https://www.lighterpack.com/r/6qpuiu

(I know it says 7.17 kg but I have a few small items to weigh in, plasters and painkillers, repair kit, sunscreen, insect repellant etc. So by the time I do that it will be around 7.5 kg)

However I'm going to be adding 4.2 kg of food, and allowing up to 2 L water, so that's another 6 kg or so of weight.

So pack weight - including food and water - would be around 14 kg at it's heaviest.

The main places I can subtract weight are:

* PACK- Could buy a Massdrop GG Crown X60, AUD $184, approx $26 per 100 grams - for saving 700 grams off my base weight.

* SLEEPING PAD - Could buy a Thermarest NeoAir Large AUD $220, approx $50 per 100 grams - for saving 420 grams off my base weight.
(Or I could use my Thermarest 40th anniversary SIM regular size mat if I can tolerate losing the width on the pad - for saving 220 grams, and not have to spend any money as I already have that mat in my collection.)
User avatar
emma_melbourne
Athrotaxis cupressoides
Athrotaxis cupressoides
 
Posts: 124
Joined: Sun 18 Jun, 2017 2:49 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Region: Victoria
Gender: Female

Re: Sleeping mat selection for reliability on long hike

Postby Moondog55 » Mon 09 Jul, 2018 12:17 pm

north-north-west wrote:
Moondog55 wrote:It's not luxury, it is an essential part of the system for getting a good nites sleep and 900 grams isn't much weight at all


900g is a lot if you aren't used to carrying it for extended periods. Some of the S2S and Thermarest inflatables are half that. Shaving a bit of weight here and a bit there adds up.
I love my NeoAirs. Would never go back to the Prolite.


In the context of warmth and comfort and wide mats 900 sounds OK to me, as one of those people who really do need a wide mat for comfort and warmth.
I'd shave 500 grams of something somewhere else if not sleeping at nite was the other choice. Over 6 days that would be one Mars/Snickers a day less.
Sleeping well is essential for me and I assumed the same for Emma, not sleeping well can start to become stupid light after a couple of days/ sleepless nites.

https://www.wildearth.com.au/buy/sea-to ... AMCLINSLAS

$240- to save 150 grams isn't a trade-up all of us can afford and needing a wide mat is already in most cases a 30% weight penalty.
A paucity of short and wide mats out there at the moment
Ve are too soon old und too late schmart
Moondog55
Lagarostrobos franklinii
Lagarostrobos franklinii
 
Posts: 8257
Joined: Thu 03 Dec, 2009 4:15 pm
Location: Norlane Geelong Victoria Australia
Region: Victoria
Gender: Male

Re: Sleeping mat selection for reliability on long hike

Postby Moondog55 » Mon 09 Jul, 2018 12:25 pm

700 grams of food per day is cutting things fine isn't it?.
Even assuming a tolerated weight loss after day 3 it sounds too little even with a high fat content
Ve are too soon old und too late schmart
Moondog55
Lagarostrobos franklinii
Lagarostrobos franklinii
 
Posts: 8257
Joined: Thu 03 Dec, 2009 4:15 pm
Location: Norlane Geelong Victoria Australia
Region: Victoria
Gender: Male

Re: Sleeping mat selection for reliability on long hike

Postby Moondog55 » Mon 09 Jul, 2018 12:31 pm

Reliability wise the old combination of a RidgeRest plus a CCF still works
https://www.tentworld.com.au/buy-sale/t ... lite-large
The downside is not being as comfortable and not saving any weight as the combination does weigh more than the equivalent in a SIF or airmat
Ve are too soon old und too late schmart
Moondog55
Lagarostrobos franklinii
Lagarostrobos franklinii
 
Posts: 8257
Joined: Thu 03 Dec, 2009 4:15 pm
Location: Norlane Geelong Victoria Australia
Region: Victoria
Gender: Male

Re: Sleeping mat selection for reliability on long hike

Postby emma_melbourne » Mon 09 Jul, 2018 12:43 pm

@Moondog55 That's interesting that you think it's too low weight for food. I'd based that amount on other people's guidelines for women, and past short hikes (2-3 days).

There is an article here which suggests 1.5 pounds (680 grams) is ok: http://www.adventurealan.com/how-much-f ... ed-answer/

However I am open-minded to examining the possibility that I'm not calculating enough food weight.

I'm 170 cm tall, and weigh 70 kg. I have begun a gym programme (post-baby) 2 weeks ago, and expect to be around 67 kg by the time I do the Overland Track. (Honestly and realistically.)
User avatar
emma_melbourne
Athrotaxis cupressoides
Athrotaxis cupressoides
 
Posts: 124
Joined: Sun 18 Jun, 2017 2:49 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Region: Victoria
Gender: Female

Re: Sleeping mat selection for reliability on long hike

Postby CraigVIC » Mon 09 Jul, 2018 1:20 pm

The thermarest rep announced on Aust Hiker an inflatable matt coming out, the 'uberlight' 6.5cm, 250g and R2.

I use an S2S UL insulated and think it is extremely good value and very comfortable. I just hope for the best regarding punctures. You'd have to think platforms and well established tent pads are as safe as it gets for punctures.
CraigVIC
Nothofagus gunnii
Nothofagus gunnii
 
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue 24 Oct, 2017 6:20 pm
Region: Victoria

Re: Sleeping mat selection for reliability on long hike

Postby Hiking Noob » Mon 09 Jul, 2018 1:50 pm

I currently have a S2s Comfort Plus and it is quite heavy but it does offer some redundancy as it has two individual air chambers. People seem to like them, I don't find it all that comfortable and the noise it makes is something else, I have had a mate in another tent tell me to shut my mattress up. I have to put my towel under it as the noise or trying to keep still cuts my sleep down quite a lot.

I tried a Cheaper and lighter Klymit V2 and really liked it, the only downside was that it has a lower R value. I will probably get the Klymit Ultralite SL as it packs down a touch smaller than the V2. The Klymit X pillows are quite nice too, I prefer them to my also noisy S2S Aeros Premium.
Hiking Noob
Athrotaxis cupressoides
Athrotaxis cupressoides
 
Posts: 176
Joined: Sun 08 Feb, 2015 10:11 pm
Region: New South Wales
Gender: Male

Re: Sleeping mat selection for reliability on long hike

Postby Moondog55 » Mon 09 Jul, 2018 2:01 pm

Well so much depends on exertion MET
But if your basal metabolism needs are average then at 67 kilos you would need approximately 6 k' joules a Day before you do any work
So I assumed an average food density of 6 kj per gram allowing for relative fat content. 6 * 700 = 4200. Add more fatty foods and things can change but there is a limit to how much fat our bodies can tolerate and still work hard [ well for most of us most of the time anyway ] mind you it is only for 6 days and I find I eat much less than normal on my first 3 days, normally over the next few and become ravenous after a couple of weeks. Body fat can contribute lots of energy, 500 g of fat for every kilo I lose and I would probably lose a kilo a week when walking. It's only a week so a calorie deficit doesn't really matter, if you finish the walk with food left-over you know you planned well, if you find yourself searching the bottoms of your pockets for wrappers to lick clean then you know to pack more food on the next trip.
I have the Comfort+ from S2S and I don't find it noisy at all and almost warm enough on snow, i think there is some variation in manufacturing as to squeak level but level of inflation seems to be the biggest factor, the harder they are blown up the more I think they are liable to squeak a bit. Tell you mate to buy and use earplugs HN
Ve are too soon old und too late schmart
Moondog55
Lagarostrobos franklinii
Lagarostrobos franklinii
 
Posts: 8257
Joined: Thu 03 Dec, 2009 4:15 pm
Location: Norlane Geelong Victoria Australia
Region: Victoria
Gender: Male

Re: Sleeping mat selection for reliability on long hike

Postby Lamont » Mon 09 Jul, 2018 2:22 pm

For what it's worth and seeing as it was referred to above, I have a new X-lite and have been doing exactly what zapruda above, mentioned, over the last week or so- and yes, it does make a difference. I got my daughter to listen as well-(sleep next to someone with an older model and they were loud-no doubt! ). We both are fairly certain it is quieter than at the start. Although it didn't seem overly loud to start with. Fairly tightly rolled and unrolled about 25 times so far. I inflated it in between about ten times with the "Franco method"-three bags full, using a nylofume bag.
It's my third neo air and like NNW and zapruda there's no looking back. Only changed to get something a bit smaller and lighter each time. No snow use however.
Might the small or regular S2S Comfort Plus about 700 grams be something? The S2Ss are 55cm wide and you can feel the extra 5 cms!
It has "redundancy" if you are concerned about a puncture and having seen one they are not too large when packed. Nalgenish size I would say.
So no lighter -but smaller I think than what you have now and "redundancy".
mangia, mangia e mangia di nuovo
User avatar
Lamont
Athrotaxis cupressoides
Athrotaxis cupressoides
 
Posts: 293
Joined: Sun 21 Feb, 2016 1:27 pm
ASSOCIATED ORGANISATIONS: Societe' de Lamont Cranston
Region: Victoria

Re: Sleeping mat selection for reliability on long hike

Postby CraigVIC » Mon 09 Jul, 2018 2:23 pm

Hiking Noob wrote:People seem to like them, I don't find it all that comfortable and the noise it makes is something else.


Seems a common complaint. All I know was my s2s was really noisy when I got it but the noise got less and less each of the first ten or so nights and now it's fine.
CraigVIC
Nothofagus gunnii
Nothofagus gunnii
 
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue 24 Oct, 2017 6:20 pm
Region: Victoria

Re: Sleeping mat selection for reliability on long hike

Postby dagsands » Mon 09 Jul, 2018 2:47 pm

Hi Emma, I have both a thermarest and an s2s Comfort Light Insulated Sleeping Mat. I get a good nights sleep on both but better on the s2s. I like to keep everything inside my pack rather than attached to the outside and I find the thermarest takes up too much room compared to the s2s, and its heavier. So TBH I only use my s2s now but I am supercareful about stones, sticks etc. I will be selling my thermarest as I just don't use it. My first one lasted ages but eventually got frayed and developed a leak and then as a cold sleeper I found it pretty useless. I bought another thermarest but dismayed at the space it took up I then bought the s2s.
If I'm going somewhere remote and risk freezing my bits off then actually I have the same concerns you have about failure. I am an EE quilt using side sleeping female and for various reasons need hip and shoulder comfort. When I bought my s2s I thought I was buying the one with the double layer failsafe as it said 'dual layer zoned construction' and I'd seen the failsafe thing on another s2s ... my fault - should have read it more thoroughly. So perhaps for that extra security I ought to have bought the comfort plus with the dual layer system. But that would have added more weight. And at any rate I still have my repair kit that came with my purchase and haven't had to use it yet.
So, after all that waffle - sorry - if I was in your situation I would take my s2s, my repair kit, and if I was extra concerned and needed the mental insurance I could buy a spare s2s repair kit. I always carry my sol escape bivvy thingy too for emergencies so if worst comes to worst I can use that too for some radiant heat.
Good luck with your decision making :)
A couple of dags and their pooch who live by the beach in their home named 'Dag Sands', of course.
dagsands
Athrotaxis cupressoides
Athrotaxis cupressoides
 
Posts: 128
Joined: Sun 26 Jul, 2015 12:04 pm
Location: NSW
Region: New South Wales

Re: Sleeping mat selection for reliability on long hike

Postby LachlanB » Mon 09 Jul, 2018 3:21 pm

Another happy Sea to Summit mat user, also with a Comfort Light Insulated. It does squeak a bit, but not enough to bother me.

I ended up getting it because it seemed an excellent compromise between weight, size, price (especially at 25% off, which isn't hard to find) and R-value.

Fwiw, I'd have no concerns about taking it on a 6-8 day walk, although I'd make sure that I packed the puncture repair kit that came with the mat just in case. Sea to Summit mats seem to have a very good reputation for durability, and I think one of the reasons the Comfort Light and the Comfort Plus series are heavier is they use a heavier fabric. Plus, I guess because of their cell design, they've got less surface area in contact with the ground that could get a puncture.
LachlanB
Athrotaxis cupressoides
Athrotaxis cupressoides
 
Posts: 297
Joined: Mon 21 Apr, 2014 5:07 pm
Region: New South Wales
Gender: Male

Re: Sleeping mat selection for reliability on long hike

Postby nezumi » Mon 09 Jul, 2018 5:50 pm

For me the compromise between comfortable sleep an weight is a tough one - especially as you can never be sure how you will go sleeping on a particular type of mat without actually trying it. I chose to go with a S2S Ultralight Insulated air mat because my main consideration for gear is packed size rather than out and out weight. I used a thermarest SIM when I started hiking in high school as part of the DoE program. As I am not familiar with SIMs, this might be heresy - but are you able to cut down the length of the large pad to reduce the weight? I know people do this with pure air mats, and it's easy with CCF - but I don't know if it can be done with a SIM.
nezumi
Nothofagus gunnii
Nothofagus gunnii
 
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon 04 Jul, 2016 10:25 pm
Region: Victoria

Re: Sleeping mat selection for reliability on long hike

Postby lorrainey100 » Mon 09 Jul, 2018 6:21 pm

Why carry 2L of water? The OT is one of the wettest tracks I've been on - creeks, streams, lakes and waterfalls and huts have rainwater tanks. You just need a Sawyer Filter or Steripen to filter or render the virus/bacteria sterile. I think I carried only 500ml to 750ml in December in a plastic PUMP bottle bought from woolworths. There, I saved you >1kg in pack out weight.

emma_melbourne wrote:My current base weight, including the 900 gram luxury mat, is sitting around 7.5 kg.

https://www.lighterpack.com/r/6qpuiu

(I know it says 7.17 kg but I have a few small items to weigh in, plasters and painkillers, repair kit, sunscreen, insect repellant etc. So by the time I do that it will be around 7.5 kg)

However I'm going to be adding 4.2 kg of food, and allowing up to 2 L water, so that's another 6 kg or so of weight.

So pack weight - including food and water - would be around 14 kg at it's heaviest.

The main places I can subtract weight are:

* PACK- Could buy a Massdrop GG Crown X60, AUD $184, approx $26 per 100 grams - for saving 700 grams off my base weight.

* SLEEPING PAD - Could buy a Thermarest NeoAir Large AUD $220, approx $50 per 100 grams - for saving 420 grams off my base weight.
(Or I could use my Thermarest 40th anniversary SIM regular size mat if I can tolerate losing the width on the pad - for saving 220 grams, and not have to spend any money as I already have that mat in my collection.)
lorrainey100
Atherosperma moschatum
Atherosperma moschatum
 
Posts: 53
Joined: Sun 30 Jun, 2013 10:43 pm
Region: New South Wales
Gender: Female

Re: Sleeping mat selection for reliability on long hike

Postby Moondog55 » Mon 09 Jul, 2018 6:28 pm

ThermaRest was the original Self Inflating Mat or SIM and haven't we come a long way. Yes you can cut one down but why would you if you can find a better alternative.
My old T'Rest 3/4 still gets used from time to time even if it isn't a wide model it has a place in my kit for hitch-hiking etc. Being old it isn't die cut foam and it is for this reason better to use if it ever gets a hole in it. A deflated SIM that uses die-cut foam is not much mattress. I did read somewhere that a camping couple in the USA solved the wide mat problem by using 3/4 mats around the wrong way, width wise That doesn't help Emma but I only just remembered and threw it in as it may help somebody in the future
Ve are too soon old und too late schmart
Moondog55
Lagarostrobos franklinii
Lagarostrobos franklinii
 
Posts: 8257
Joined: Thu 03 Dec, 2009 4:15 pm
Location: Norlane Geelong Victoria Australia
Region: Victoria
Gender: Male

Re: Sleeping mat selection for reliability on long hike

Postby emma_melbourne » Mon 09 Jul, 2018 6:33 pm

I’m not necessarily carrying 2 Litres, I just have capacity to carry up to 2 litres, plus my Ketadyn BeFree filter fits on a 600 ml squeeze bottle. Those don’t weigh much and have good reviews and hold up favourably to Sawyer Squeeze. (Filter faster and don’t need to squeeze or use gravity feed. Can just drink straight out of bottle with filter, or pour through filter into the storage bottle.

The 2 Litres is an “up to” / no more / max of than 2 litres. Eg For section of track with distance before next water source or if it were dryer than usual in Summer, etc. In all likelihood I’ll be toting more like 600 ml or 1 Litre and drinking from that.
User avatar
emma_melbourne
Athrotaxis cupressoides
Athrotaxis cupressoides
 
Posts: 124
Joined: Sun 18 Jun, 2017 2:49 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Region: Victoria
Gender: Female

Re: Sleeping mat selection for reliability on long hike

Postby jdeks » Mon 09 Jul, 2018 6:52 pm

Lot of talk about SIMs being the more 'reliable' option....got no idea where this misconception comes from.

SIMs will ultimately, always, delaminate. Yes, even Thermarests. I say that as a guy who still has his 10 year old prolite short. The better ones will take longer, but use em enough and the glue will break down. They're not infallible. And when they do delaminate, theyre useless.

Secondly, a flat/holed SIM offers bugger all thermal insulation. That foam is selected for its shape memory, not thermal insulation. A flat SIM is about as good as newspaper compared to CCF, so don't think SIM has an edge there.

Insulated inflatable air mats (x therm, x lite) are just as reliable. Primary failure mechanism is wall delamination, which I've almost never seen a thermarest do (vs , say, a certain Swiss competitor...). Holes and rips can be fixed instantly with tape. I've repaired a neo-air xlite that went between a dirtbike tire and the mudguard at 80kph, and used it for 5 days after with not a night on the ground.

Don't limit yourself to SIMs. There's a good reason they're less and less common now.
jdeks
Athrotaxis cupressoides
Athrotaxis cupressoides
 
Posts: 286
Joined: Sat 15 Mar, 2014 5:05 pm
Region: Australia

Next

Return to Equipment

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests