Aussies blocked from Amazon.com from July 1st!

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Re: Aussies blocked from Amazon.com from July 1st!

Postby GPSGuided » Sat 02 Jun, 2018 8:18 am

The crux of the issue really is not about Amazon but Australian retailers’ attitude towards eCommerce and globalisation. Gerry’s desire to keep status quo and unwillingness to evolve his traditional business model led to this, along with a pathetic implementation by the govt. Why should overseas businesses be made to collect taxes for the Australian govt in days of globalisation when they are just responding to purchase demands of Australians? Do your own work! Us consumers are the ones who lose.
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Re: Aussies blocked from Amazon.com from July 1st!

Postby Gadgetgeek » Sat 02 Jun, 2018 8:37 am

The other option is a government customs house, and then all the shippers will collect tax plus a collection fee, and we still get screwed. That's how it was in Canada, and DHL charged insane fees for their "customs brokering service" which was a total con. Not saying one way or the other is right, we get screwed by someone anyway.
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Re: Aussies blocked from Amazon.com from July 1st!

Postby Moondog55 » Sat 02 Jun, 2018 8:59 am

The really sad part is collection of duty and GST on small items of less than $1k- will actually cost more than the money raised it seems, which is why the $1k- threshold was introduced in the first place so expect a customs fee on top of the GST very soon, just like it used to be way back in the dark ages of the 1960s/70s of tariffs and protectionism
Ve are too soon old und too late schmart
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Re: Aussies blocked from Amazon.com from July 1st!

Postby bigwallclimber » Mon 04 Jun, 2018 3:16 pm

I just think this is a whole heap of C**P, why do we shop overseas ? Cheaper because they have a better buying power, more competitive, or Australian prices are over inflated ?

Instead of paying GST I will just have to make an overseas trip once every year to fill the void for the stuff you cannot get here or pay far too much for the item.

An example is I want to buy the MSR Titan 2 titanium pots, in the US a value of $143, Australian price $332. Now tell me the Australian companies are not ripping us off blind ? Instead of buying those pots here in Australia I will buy them while I am in the US in October and November and pay $183 AUD for them.

I like to buy in Australia but it is getting ridiculous.

Or should everyone do all of their purchasing prior to 1 July and not buy anything for years ?
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Re: Aussies blocked from Amazon.com from July 1st!

Postby Nuts » Mon 04 Jun, 2018 4:59 pm

Amazon US was a good source for gear reviews.

One opportunity here would be for a US based amazon research/site/intermediary, drop shipping co's will purchase on your behalf.
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Re: Aussies blocked from Amazon.com from July 1st!

Postby Heremeahappy1 » Mon 04 Jun, 2018 5:32 pm

Son of a Beach wrote:
Moondog55 wrote:There is still Ship-it-too and all the other forwarding companies for those people with no family or friends in the USA or the UK.


According to the news reports, the international (ie, non-Australian) Amazon websites will all block traffic from Australia and instead redirect browsers to the Australian Amazon website.

So if this goes ahead, freight forwarding won't help with using the Amazon online stores, as you will not even be able to browse the site, let-alone place an order. Although in theory, you could use some network hackery to make it look like you're browsing from somewhere other than Australia (eg, VPN, tunelling).


Have you tried accessing Google that us not google.au?
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Re: Aussies blocked from Amazon.com from July 1st!

Postby Warin » Mon 04 Jun, 2018 5:36 pm

bigwallclimber wrote:I like to buy in Australia but it is getting ridiculous.

Or should everyone do all of their purchasing prior to 1 July and not buy anything for years ?


Bit too late... I have done fair bit of purchasing in the past 6 months. Just to avoid the Gerry Harvey Tax. Mostly small stuff that is cheap . but I think the Gerry Harvey Tax will have a monumental increase in the price of stuff that used to cost $1 off ebay.

I too would like to buy in Australia, but .. when the bags I wanted were over double the price and 6 weeks delivery ... I purchased elsewhere. Nothing to do with the retailer .. all the distributor. :evil:

A VPN will get you Amazon US or UK.
The collecting shippers will still exist - they ship elsewhere too.

I don't think anyone knows how this Gerry Harvey Tax will work, there is something about if you get less than $76,000 into Australia then you don't have to bother .. will the Tax then be billed to the receiver as it crosses the Australian border or not paid at all? :?
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Re: Aussies blocked from Amazon.com from July 1st!

Postby Nitroneil » Sat 09 Jun, 2018 11:46 pm

Just to keep everyone well informed. When I was a National sales manager for a company that relied on importing known brands we were often accused of FAT PROFITs.
I queried with the manufacturer as to why US and UK websites could sell the same lines as us at about our cost prices. Their answer was " we need the US and UK markets because of their size, so we supply them at a far lower cost than we supply Australia, your customers will still buy the range from the US so we don't care if your sales are low"
SO if you add the higher initial cost to the US$7/hr minimum wage and US rents at up to 60% lower than Australian rents you might be able to work out that the FAT PROFITS that you think are happening are not there. With retail rents at $1000/m2 per annum most Aussie retailers are struggling to survive.
Having customers come into a store to pick the sales staff brains and try equipment on and then to buy overseas from the net does not help them pay the rent or wages.

As for AMAZONS ridiculous claim that it will cost too much to collect the GST when all that is required is a simple code that adds 10% to every sale.
They must think we are all morons to believe that it is too hard, they already collect sales tax at varying levels for the different US states and have no issues with that. They just do not want to contribute to our economy.
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Re: Aussies blocked from Amazon.com from July 1st!

Postby Davidf61 » Sun 10 Jun, 2018 6:19 pm

I'm looking at spending reasonably big over the next couple of weeks [ all sorts of stuff, home/work/whatever ] to get in before the main change, then sit back, wait for the dust to settle, then look for the various go-arounds. There's always a way.

I actually do believe in buying local most times, it's often small trinkety things I can only get from OS that I buy the most of.

Edit: Aliexpress??, I've done a bit of buying off them recently, come away with the view that the Chinese stuff is slowly but surely improving in quality, recently bought a tent as a present for a mate, a Lanshan 2 [ Z-packs clone ] for about $100 delivered. *&%$#! hell, it's built beautifully.
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Re: Aussies blocked from Amazon.com from July 1st!

Postby Franco » Sun 10 Jun, 2018 7:47 pm

Nitroneil,
Thanks for the effort but don't bother.
For many years I have tried to explain that it is in fact more expensive to have either wholesale and retail businesses* here compared in particular with the US but nobody is interested.
For some odd reason , at the same time, nobody has ever followed my suggestion to get a group of like minded people (the "we are ripped off brigade ") to put their money together and start their own business.
Odd , isn't it ?
*(minimum wage, holidays loading, sick days, rents, cost of utilities, lower volume, transport...)
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Re: Aussies blocked from Amazon.com from July 1st!

Postby GPSGuided » Sun 10 Jun, 2018 9:52 pm

Nitroneil wrote:Their answer was " we need the US and UK markets because of their size, so we supply them at a far lower cost than we supply Australia, your customers will still buy the range from the US so we don't care if your sales are low"

Fortunately or unfortunately, economy of scale does matter. Not surprised both sides of the parliament are overtly or covertly pushing for that big Australia policy.
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Re: Aussies blocked from Amazon.com from July 1st!

Postby casey79 » Mon 11 Jun, 2018 10:03 pm

Nitroneil wrote:Just to keep everyone well informed. When I was a National sales manager for a company that relied on importing known brands we were often accused of FAT PROFITs.
I queried with the manufacturer as to why US and UK websites could sell the same lines as us at about our cost prices. Their answer was " we need the US and UK markets because of their size, so we supply them at a far lower cost than we supply Australia, your customers will still buy the range from the US so we don't care if your sales are low"
SO if you add the higher initial cost to the US$7/hr minimum wage and US rents at up to 60% lower than Australian rents you might be able to work out that the FAT PROFITS that you think are happening are not there. With retail rents at $1000/m2 per annum most Aussie retailers are struggling to survive.
Having customers come into a store to pick the sales staff brains and try equipment on and then to buy overseas from the net does not help them pay the rent or wages.

As for AMAZONS ridiculous claim that it will cost too much to collect the GST when all that is required is a simple code that adds 10% to every sale.
They must think we are all morons to believe that it is too hard, they already collect sales tax at varying levels for the different US states and have no issues with that. They just do not want to contribute to our economy.


Where is the like button??
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Re: Aussies blocked from Amazon.com from July 1st!

Postby michael_p » Mon 11 Jun, 2018 10:23 pm

casey79 wrote:Where is the like button??

+1. Nitronell is on the money. Luckily I have a cousin who lives in California. :D
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Re: Aussies blocked from Amazon.com from July 1st!

Postby Singe » Wed 13 Jun, 2018 8:06 am

Nitroneil wrote:As for AMAZONS ridiculous claim that it will cost too much to collect the GST when all that is required is a simple code that adds 10% to every sale.
They must think we are all morons to believe that it is too hard, they already collect sales tax at varying levels for the different US states and have no issues with that. They just do not want to contribute to our economy.


I'm 100% on board with the rest of your post - know people in retail and distro here and they don't typically sleep on giant pipes of cash. It's just the straya tax for being a small, remote market.

But I can't believe Amazon would cut off their nose to spite the aus govt if there was a buck to be made. These kinds of changes are never as trivial or inexpensive to implement as they appear from the other side of the screen...

I've seen a couple of other fairly major retailers announce they will block aus sales; if wiggle follow suit I'm gonna be pissed!

Also low-key spending up big before the cutover. That's cash that could be circulating in our economy going OS instead for me to stockpile gear... Nice one Gerry.
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Re: Aussies blocked from Amazon.com from July 1st!

Postby Orion » Wed 13 Jun, 2018 10:59 am

Singe wrote:if wiggle follow suit I'm gonna be pissed!


Sorry to interrupt but I find aussie slang fascinating and I've never come across the phrase "if wiggle follow suit" before. What precisely does it mean? And, if I'm to believe my aussie slang dictionary, are you really going to get drunk if the suit does come after the wiggle?
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Re: Aussies blocked from Amazon.com from July 1st!

Postby johnw » Wed 13 Jun, 2018 11:33 am

Orion wrote:
Singe wrote:if wiggle follow suit I'm gonna be pissed!


Sorry to interrupt but I find aussie slang fascinating and I've never come across the phrase "if wiggle follow suit" before. What precisely does it mean? And, if I'm to believe my aussie slang dictionary, are you really going to get drunk if the suit does come after the wiggle?

He's talking about wiggle.co.uk and their aussie site https://www.wiggle.com.au/. And he'll be pissed (off) - angry, not drunk (or maybe both :)).
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Re: Aussies blocked from Amazon.com from July 1st!

Postby RonK » Wed 13 Jun, 2018 12:15 pm

Orion wrote:
Singe wrote:if wiggle follow suit I'm gonna be pissed!


Sorry to interrupt but I find aussie slang fascinating and I've never come across the phrase "if wiggle follow suit" before. What precisely does it mean? And, if I'm to believe my aussie slang dictionary, are you really going to get drunk if the suit does come after the wiggle?

A common expression, and not particularly Australian at all. Follow suit as in card games - Bridge for example, is the origin. It means simply to do the same thing.

Appears in English dictionaries. Cambridge Academic Content Dictionary

Pissed or pissed off simply means annoyed. Again not particularly Australian expression.
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Re: Aussies blocked from Amazon.com from July 1st!

Postby Orion » Wed 13 Jun, 2018 12:25 pm

Thanks for the explanation. I know what "follow suit" means and I was joking about the alternate meaning of pissed. I didn't know about wiggle.com.au and thought that the word "wiggle" was part of the expression.
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Re: Aussies blocked from Amazon.com from July 1st!

Postby wildwanderer » Wed 13 Jun, 2018 7:28 pm

Nitroneil wrote:Just to keep everyone well informed. When I was a National sales manager for a company that relied on importing known brands we were often accused of FAT PROFITs.
I queried with the manufacturer as to why US and UK websites could sell the same lines as us at about our cost prices. Their answer was " we need the US and UK markets because of their size, so we supply them at a far lower cost than we supply Australia, your customers will still buy the range from the US so we don't care if your sales are low"
SO if you add the higher initial cost to the US$7/hr minimum wage and US rents at up to 60% lower than Australian rents you might be able to work out that the FAT PROFITS that you think are happening are not there. With retail rents at $1000/m2 per annum most Aussie retailers are struggling to survive.
Having customers come into a store to pick the sales staff brains and try equipment on and then to buy overseas from the net does not help them pay the rent or wages.

As for AMAZONS ridiculous claim that it will cost too much to collect the GST when all that is required is a simple code that adds 10% to every sale.
They must think we are all morons to believe that it is too hard, they already collect sales tax at varying levels for the different US states and have no issues with that. They just do not want to contribute to our economy.


Thanks for the contribution and explanation. This is not something I have heard before so Im more than happy to be corrected and the record set straight. :)

Unfortunately I cant edit the original post as the edit time limit has expired.
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Re: Aussies blocked from Amazon.com from July 1st!

Postby Hiking Noob » Wed 13 Jun, 2018 10:22 pm

I can't get over how this is creating so much uproar, the government does something to help Aussie businesses bu leveling the playing field and everyone gets angry. Think of the poor staff members that have good product knowledge and knock out great sales pitch after great sales pitch for customers to say they don't want it then head home to get it cheaper from OS. You have stolen time from a retailer and you aren't paying tax, that's mighty Aussie of you.

As for Mr Harvey, he did try starting a business in Ireland shipping back to Aus but it didn't really take off. John Howard bumped the threshold form $300 to $1000 when he was in power, I don't think it made local business more competitive as he thought it would, some did go broke though.

I spent a few years scouring the internet looking for the best prices on stuff people didn't really need and would write up posts for many many items a day and I have just ended up very bitter towards mass consumerism and have found I "need" to purchase a lot less these days as a result.

I hope they ban disposable batteries next, heaven forbid we have to plan ahead...........

That is probably a somewhat disjointed and nonsensical post, sleep time, hahaha!
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Re: Aussies blocked from Amazon.com from July 1st!

Postby GPSGuided » Thu 14 Jun, 2018 9:34 am

Hiking Noob wrote:I can't get over how this is creating so much uproar, the government does something to help Aussie businesses bu leveling the playing field and everyone gets angry.

Because it’s protectionism in a similar mode as what Trump is doing. It may be beneficial for some in the short term, but it’s destructive in the longer term with our businesses’ model falling further behind in the global trend, further reducing our competitiveness. If one believes in the market economy concept, even the ex-communist countries do, then these protectionism regulation are counter productive. As for Trump, too many policy decisions are made for the next election in the next 1-2 years, not in the decade horizon.
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Re: Aussies blocked from Amazon.com from July 1st!

Postby Hiking Noob » Thu 14 Jun, 2018 10:58 pm

And look at Trump, he's just been nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize by Moon Jae-In, hahaha!

Being behind the global trend was what once made Australia an awesome place, we were just out here being relaxed and not caring what the rest of the world did and what they thought of us. Now people travel far more frequently and seem to want Australia to function like a densely populated European country. We are a long way from everything and we have people scattered all over a massive country, things cost more here, and they should.

How is treating an international sale the same as a local sale in regards to GST protectionism? The products are still free of other import taxes that local companies have to pay.

I am a bogan who studied English at the lowest level so I may misunderstand what members are trying to get across, I am not trying to pick an e-fight I just struggle to understand why 10% is such a big deal.

Does anyone know how this works for gift giving? If someone was in say, the UK and bought a present and had it sent to the recipient in Oz would they be charged GST or would it be collected by Auspost? My brother is in Scotland and posting gifts is a pain as he gets slugged with a bill when he receives them, now I just purchase from the UK for him which I guess is the government's aim.
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Re: Aussies blocked from Amazon.com from July 1st!

Postby CasualNerd » Thu 14 Jun, 2018 11:52 pm

Hiking Noob wrote: I am not trying to pick an e-fight I just struggle to understand why 10% is such a big deal.


I don't even object to paying a fair amount of tax, even GST, but this is just going to make things difficult for everyone.

Is there any fresh news on how this will be implemented ? They obviously don't have facilities to track and charge GST on however many million packages arrive every year.
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Re: Aussies blocked from Amazon.com from July 1st!

Postby drakkar » Fri 15 Jun, 2018 4:20 am

Hiking Noob wrote:I can't get over how this is creating so much uproar, the government does something to help Aussie businesses bu leveling the playing field and everyone gets angry. Think of the poor staff members that have good product knowledge and knock out great sales pitch after great sales pitch for customers to say they don't want it then head home to get it cheaper from OS. You have stolen time from a retailer and you aren't paying tax, that's mighty Aussie of you.


If only it levelled the playing field though. The retailers that go beyond hiring people who are cheap vs people that are knowledgeable are low.... Those are the ones that also tend to provide good service and have me as a return customer.
The rest are the one's that can't be bothered ordering in a size/style for you to try on, so you take the gamble online.

When I can buy parts online cheaper than I can buy them at a staff rate from the wholesaler, and have them to my door quicker than the 3 months it takes for the local wholesaler to have them on the next shipment something bigger is wrong than a bit of tax. It's the government trying to get their piece of the pie, under the thin veil of 'buying' small business votes who they have progressively annoyed over the last few years.

It will simply drive people to find ways around the system, especially for the bespoke market in all industry's. If you don't fit into the small mainstream pocket that we have available to us, then your going to struggle.
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Re: Aussies blocked from Amazon.com from July 1st!

Postby Warin » Fri 15 Jun, 2018 8:55 am

Hiking Noob wrote: Think of the poor staff members that have good product knowledge and knock out great sales pitch after great sales pitch for customers to say they don't want it then head home to get it cheaper from OS. You have stolen time from a retailer and you aren't paying tax, that's mighty Aussie of you.


The last time I was in Dick Smith and asked about a product .. I was told that I could look that up on the internet. So I did. Guess where I bought that product?

I don't expect much from 'sales' staff any more. Much better doing research on the internet these days. Unfortunately the reviews from Amazon much be blocked now.

Ikea was a pleasant surprise, other than the maze, the staff knew their products and gave good information. Strangely the checkouts were busy.
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Re: Aussies blocked from Amazon.com from July 1st!

Postby casey79 » Fri 15 Jun, 2018 2:14 pm

Warin wrote:The last time I was in Dick Smith and asked about a product .. I was told that I could look that up on the internet. So I did. Guess where I bought that product?

I don't expect much from 'sales' staff any more. Much better doing research on the internet these days. Unfortunately the reviews from Amazon much be blocked now.

Ikea was a pleasant surprise, other than the maze, the staff knew their products and gave good information. Strangely the checkouts were busy.


Dick Smith closed down in 2016 and at the end it was a not a store you would go to for specialist service.

Stores in Sydney who have kept to their core like Paddy Pallin, Mountain Equipment and Trek and Travel hire experienced end users who can give you technical recommendations which you wont get off Amazon.
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Aussies blocked from Amazon.com from July 1st!

Postby GPSGuided » Fri 15 Jun, 2018 3:04 pm

Fundamentally there’s nothing wrong and I have nothing against charging GST on imported goods, as long as it’s just the 10% without added fees. What’s ridiculous is expecting foreign companies to do the hard yakka, expectedly leading to Amazon and other retailers’ decision. The analogy I would apply here is Trump/US’s border wall and expecting Mexico to pay for it. There was a real and practical reason why we had that $1000 duty free cap in the first place.

The big loser come 1 July will be Australian consumers. We will go backwards on a global selection of products at competitive prices. Australia should get with the global trend in mail order shopping and shake up our retail sector. Whilst some complain and excuse with the loss of business by our local importers/retailers, but have we all noticed the market outside our border? The volume of retail sale that gets mailed to Asia (China in particular) is quite incredible. How about encouraging our laid back retail sector to work on their global presence and export our excellent products? Nay, the vision is so short, not happening.

One other observation. In every country I've seen a booming online retail market has online products that are significantly cheaper than brick and mortar stores, along with very fast delivery. Here in Australia, typically I'm not finding great discounts with our online stores (for locally sourced goods) and then there's postage and slow delivery, often taking days to a week to arrive. The local retailers or the industry chain is so laid back and uncompetitive. With more protection, we are going to go further back globally.
Last edited by GPSGuided on Fri 15 Jun, 2018 3:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Aussies blocked from Amazon.com from July 1st!

Postby Moondog55 » Fri 15 Jun, 2018 3:14 pm

I used to Google thru Amazon all the time, in a dozen years I think I have bought 3 or 4 specialty books. I never found Amazon to be either cheap or convenient when postage was added to the cost IF what I wanted was available to us here.
A lot of US sellers were simply not interested in doing business overseas.
What I will miss is looking at what other people in different parts of the world are looking at and/or spending money on and reading the often hilarious reviews

GPS is correct, in order for the GST collection not to wind up costing the government billions on wages there will need to a return to the old Customs surcharge. Given inflation etc I could see that surcharge being horrendous, I think I mentioned a fee cost in a previous post but that was conjecture on my part extrapolating from a newspaper article I think
Prepare for a $35- to $50- extra collection cost tho if my experience of the old system is any indication
Ve are too soon old und too late schmart
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Re: Aussies blocked from Amazon.com from July 1st!

Postby GPSGuided » Fri 15 Jun, 2018 3:54 pm

Moondog55 wrote:I used to Google thru Amazon all the time, in a dozen years I think I have bought 3 or 4 specialty books. I never found Amazon to be either cheap or convenient when postage was added to the cost IF what I wanted was available to us here.

There are irregularities but there are also alternatives eg. Bookdepository.com from the UK. What's brilliant about these sites is their range of offering and availability, no different when we head overseas for outdoor gears.
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Joined: Mon 13 May, 2013 2:37 pm
Location: Sydney
Region: New South Wales

Re: Aussies blocked from Amazon.com from July 1st!

Postby Warin » Fri 15 Jun, 2018 4:19 pm

GPSGuided wrote:There are irregularities but there are also alternatives eg. Bookdepository.com from the UK. What's brilliant about these sites is their range of offering and availability, no different when we head overseas for outdoor gears.


I enquired about a book I wanted from an Australian retailer .. They managed to give me a price .. after a week of waiting .. but could not give a delivery time frame.
Managed to buy it second-hand from some bookshop I found using https://www.abebooks.com/ .. I have used them several times for out of print books too. Apparently it is popular with OZ uni students too.
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Warin
Athrotaxis cupressoides
Athrotaxis cupressoides
 
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