Cost of canister gas?

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TIP: The online Bushwalk Inventory System can help bushwalkers with a variety of bushwalk planning tasks, including: Manage which items they take bushwalking so that they do not forget anything they might need, plan meals for their walks, and automatically compile food/fuel shopping lists (lists of consumables) required to make and cook the meals for each walk. It is particularly useful for planning for groups who share food or other items, but is also useful for individual walkers.

Re: Cost of canister gas?

Postby CasualNerd » Fri 14 Sep, 2018 7:51 am

ribuck wrote:Has anyone actually lit one yet, to confirm that they're not just full of water?

Yeah burns just as you'd expect. They look / feel like every quality brand name I've used previously.
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Re: Cost of canister gas?

Postby johnrs » Fri 14 Sep, 2018 3:31 pm

Guys
Where did you order the bulk Gasmate canisters??
Can't see it in the thread.
I am in NSW.
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Re: Cost of canister gas?

Postby Nuts » Fri 14 Sep, 2018 3:38 pm

https://www.outdoorsdomain.com.au (shrug)

GPS they were 75/25 here as well (last year).. so a change in the mix.
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Re: Cost of canister gas?

Postby Warin » Fri 14 Sep, 2018 3:45 pm

johnrs wrote:Guys
Where did you order the bulk Gasmate canisters??
Can't see it in the thread.

On page 1 of this thread about 1/3rd the way down the page

Note .. 230g may be sold out at the moment. But you might still be able to order them, just a longer wait for stock to arrive and then to be delivered.

Nuts has already posted just above .. but this gives where you can see the original post .. so you might improve your detective skills :)
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Re: Cost of canister gas?

Postby GPSGuided » Fri 14 Sep, 2018 3:59 pm

Nuts wrote:GPS they were 75/25 here as well (last year).. so a change in the mix.

I wonder why they changed the mix? Supplier change? Market differentiation? Climate change?
Just move it!
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Re: Cost of canister gas?

Postby Mark F » Fri 14 Sep, 2018 4:34 pm

I suspect that the reduction in propane from 30% to 25% is needed to allow for the higher partial pressure generated in the move from n-butane to iso-butane. Checking Google for images of canister the 30% propane canisters are labeled as having butane rather than iso-butane, Personally I much prefer the propane/iso-butane blend as the entire canister will work down to well below zero even if the propane is largely exhausted. This suggests that either blend , 80/20 n-butane/propane or 75/25 iso-butane/propane which both have very similar temperature/pressure curves, deliver internal pressures that are at the upper limit of the canister specifications.
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Re: Cost of canister gas?

Postby Warin » Fri 14 Sep, 2018 5:17 pm

Mark F wrote:internal pressures that are at the upper limit of the canister specifications.


Zen and the design production process. Ommm
The design engineer and lawyer will have a safety factor in the strength of the canister.
The production engineer and accountant will reduce that safety factor of the canister to reduce costs.
As the person to oversee the production the production engineer has the last say.
Thus thin canisters.

(Ref: Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance)
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Re: Cost of canister gas?

Postby GPSGuided » Fri 14 Sep, 2018 5:31 pm

Mark F wrote:Personally I much prefer the propane/iso-butane blend as the entire canister will work down to well below zero even if the propane is largely exhausted.

Concur. Propane/iso-Butane in 25/75 mix is a sweet spot, one that sucked me into this deal. :mrgreen:
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Re: Cost of canister gas?

Postby Nuts » Fri 14 Sep, 2018 5:32 pm

GPSGuided wrote:
Nuts wrote:GPS they were 75/25 here as well (last year).. so a change in the mix.

I wonder why they changed the mix? Supplier change? Market differentiation? Climate change?


The NZ mix? Perhaps that is a newer version, i'm not sure. I'd suspect pricing first. The 75/25 mix works fine, through our range of conditions.
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Cost of canister gas?

Postby GPSGuided » Fri 14 Sep, 2018 7:31 pm

Nuts wrote:The NZ mix? Perhaps that is a newer version, i'm not sure. I'd suspect pricing first. The 75/25 mix works fine, through our range of conditions.

Yes, I was referring to the difference in the mix ratio b/n NZ and AU of the same product.

By logic, one would have expected the higher propane ratio be supplied to NZ for the colder climate and potential higher altitude of walk routes.
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Re: Cost of canister gas?

Postby skibug » Tue 25 Sep, 2018 11:14 am

Mark F wrote:

"... This suggests that either blend , 80/20 n-butane/propane or 75/25 iso-butane/propane which both have very similar temperature/pressure curves, deliver internal pressures that are at the upper limit of the canister specifications."

Roger Caffin, not surprisingly, has done a lot of research on canister pressure and failures, including experiments in his (rural) backyard, heating canisters to their rupture point inside an old kiln. He published in Backpacking Light (https://backpackinglight.com/exploding_ ... verheating) some years ago, which I read at the time (as a subscriber at the time), but no longer can access. But from memory, he found that canisters are engineered to be safe up to at least 50 degrees, as they may be be transported in conditions up to that. In his stress tests, I seem to remember he found that it was only above (usually well above) 80 degrees(?) that they would fail, and even then not with "explosions" but more like powerful venting. As 50 degrees is reasonably hot to the touch, I concluded that so long as I can comfortably touch the hottest part of the canister, it was reasonably safe - this is assuming the canister is not corroded, or has dents or other imperfections. With my cooking set up, including a windshield which is loosely wrapped, I have never felt at risk.

See also:

https://bushwalkingnsw.org.au/clubsites ... ch.htm#Hot

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Re: Cost of canister gas?

Postby Mark F » Tue 25 Sep, 2018 11:25 am

ski bug - I agree and my posts were based on Rogers findings and other information. The point of my posts was in response to others who seemed to want to increase the propane level to well above the 25% in the propane/iso-butane blend and thus move into what I consider dangerous territory as do the standard setters. I have no fears for my own setup which also includes a windshield.
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Re: Cost of canister gas?

Postby GPSGuided » Thu 27 Sep, 2018 5:05 pm

Looks like Outdoors Domain has received new stock of those 230g canisters and our bulk order here in Sydney will be shipped soon.

At present, we still have 12 spare cans unallocated (at $3 each) for those who are interested.
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